Idea for a project?

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tetsulo

Well-Known Member
I started building one of those out of a set of TLT axles and some OLD 1.6" paddle tires from Duratrax that were made for the original Hornet three piece rims. I never got around to finishing it. But I was going to use a HVmaxx brushless, lipos, and an inline gear reduction. I figure the wheels need to turn @ 15k or more with a very low final weight in order for it to truly skip.

Here is a pic of a finished wheel (the white is PVC pipe and the black is a clod wheel adapter to give you an idea of the size. They came out very scale looking.

 
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Nutz4rc

Well-Known Member
Me too

I used to have two Nitro trucks that I tried water running-skipping-what you wanna call it, with and they would explode with power on dry ground but on water it was like they were drug under on purpose. I tried launches on the side and then hitting the water at speed. As soon as they hit the water it was like the speed was cut in half. The trucks (Kyosho USA-1 Nitro Crushers)DID use chevron tread and that may have been half the problem. I had seen water running by 4x4's with unbelievable power. Being that most rc can do what there full size counterparts cannot I think its just a matter of getting the right vehicle setup right. I to have thought about this and would love to make a unit capable of achieving this. I would almost guess that a 4x4 buggy with paddles may be whats needed. Maybe even a 1/10th scale and not a heavier 1/8th?? I am interested to try this again and looking forward to others ideas on what might work. Bill
 
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Nutz4rc

Well-Known Member
Uh huh

I had to download the video of above (dial up here..I live in the boonies) and was a lil dissapointed to see how he went about it. I wonder when that was actually filmed? I ahve seen videos a long while ago of drag racing on water with big 4x4 mud pit draggers and they get NO run at it. The front tires are almost in the water when they start and the ones I have seen were much faster. I am gonna have to go-a-looking for those vids.

Might have to get one of those Art Tech RC snowmobiles for this lol jk.

I have had two tlts but never ran them much. Do you think the axles are tough enough to deal with that kind of serious power without failing? If it musses up and the lipo goes under water that can ruin the Lipo pretty quick. Fine Design actaully makes totally sealed LIPOS for boats that are water proof in case you want a battery that will survive a OOPS!

I am thinking of a MRC SB academy buggy with a smoking hot brushless as well. With a paddle tire at all fours it should be up to the deed. But in efforts not to smoke a good brushless setup I may try a wacked out brush motor first with clodbuster three speed mechanical speed control with a top speed override (A HIGH current switch that the servo makes once the clod speed control hits the third speed.) Much less resistance. Easy to do. With good cells and a good connectors this can have less resistance than most high end electronics speed controls and is cheap and delivers.

What other 4x4 buggys are out there that may be able to handle some serious yank? I have had Tamiya Blazing stars and they aint bad. But I dunno if they are as light or low frinction drive like the SB.

The LOsi XX4 and XXX4 come to mind. There are other Associcated but I do not know where to find them or parts (other than fleabay). Traxxas does not make a 4x4 buggy :[


Just a tired thought of a rambling RC fool. Get a car setup and attach a piece of foam to the bottom with a v-nose on the front of the foam. This would float the car (or truck) and let the tires paddle it around. IF it could be done when you nuked the throttle the tires would generate enoguh lift to lift the car (or truck) off the thin suppport foam and once the car (or truck) lifted itself out of the water the car (or truck) would take off at blazing speed. done right with thing foam and a light car you could drive it on land a lil then plod off into the water. Would be a neat ash lil trick for onlookers to see it do this. It may not be possible but the more I think about it the more I NEED to try! Bill
 
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Nutz4rc

Well-Known Member
Thinkin thinkin

Been toying with this idea and looking at/for a 4x4 buggy and A possible answer almost bit me in the foot. I Have one of my rc18t's sitting neaxt to the charger and nearly kicked it. Once I looked at it a lil I thought it might be a canidate. Small and light. four wheel drive. With Losi Mini T paddles at all four corners ( looking at what it takes to mount them on it later today after family leaves) Add a LRP A.i> waterproof controller ( these can if you did not know run underwater. (But so far 8.4 volts for are the ones found have I "Yoda") I want to see if they make one that is waterproof and can deall with a 11.1 volt lipo. I am also seeking a waterproof servo that will fit this truck. But may got the sealed ballon approach They even make brushless waterproof controllers so I am looking at that. With a low MAH 11.1 (think light weight. You do not need major long run times for a drag racer) and a hot brushless and Mini T paddles at each corner It might have a shot.

I am still looking for a 1/10th scale 4x4 buggy. Couple Losis XXX4 on flea bay right now. I like the MRC SB academy better though...... Bill
 
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justadork

Guest
At my apartment complex, they had a set of broken sprinklers that were on all night, it rained all night, and my neighbor emptied out his fish pond into the yard, there was like 2" of standing water in the picnic area and my TXT-1 with narrowed wheels, cut tires, my Mtroniks 600 brushless and a 23tooth pinion would skip right across it.

If you stopped, you could see the water going up above the bottom of the rim, but as soon as you got on the gas it would start to pick up and plane across the water, huge rooster tails too.

Wish I had my wife around to take video, I'll fix my truck and get a video up at a small pond.
 
S_C_I_P_I_O79

S_C_I_P_I_O79

Well-Known Member
Tetsulo- Nice job on the wheel, 1.6? is small tho. Is that why you figured on the high wheel RPM? Anything special about 15k or was that just a starting point? If I calculated right, 15K on a 1.6? dia wheel is around 70MPH.

Bill- Now that's what I call Brainstorming, I like all the ideas. I too had the thought of going small, even as small as one of those Venom Mini Giants (or clones of) but think finding/making paddles for it might be a challene. Wonder how those old 1.6? above would fit? I wonder if solid axles gives any advantage or not?

As for a try in the ?normal? 1/10 scale, I'm thinking also about the Wheely King as a base- aren't they kind of lightweight? One guy transformed one into a touring car :ack and went 73MPH at the RCCA speed challenge. So I guess the WK gears can (or can be made to?) take some abuse. Or maybe a PTI Goliath, I wonder how there axles compare in weight and durability to TLT axles. I am partial to solid axles, but I am keeping open to the 4wd buggies too. How much do 4wd buggies typically weigh?

Also I'm looking at my Ninja Clod (see thread in the Clodbuster forum) and it has me thinking. Find some 3s lipos and if I take my Hackers out my Ripper Clod and put them in there.... yet I could just try this with the Ripper as is.... I've read clods can float with stock sealed tires.... or would that be cheating? I just think weight or the lack of it should be a main focus and thats what hurts the clod. Wonder how the weight compares between Jugg/TXT axles with gearbox and drive shafts against two clods gearbox-axles. What about the Twin Force?


Hey Dork- LOL... That would have been cool to see and is some good info. Trying this in a few inches of water first would be the smart way to go about it. Please do fix that truck of yours. Also can you add what tires you were using and how were they cut, would you say the cuts made them paddle like?

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=formula+offroad

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=RFOT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MjySBPFCvw (9 sec, better for dial-up)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLsWEn2wXjA

Found some more videos (above) on YouTube, search for 'Formula Offroad' or 'RFOT' for a R/C version (no water skipping in these). Seems as they did the water thing as part of a extreme hill climb competition. Those RFOT vids really makes me want to take a second look at a Twin Force.

Wonder if a soft suspension setup would held with this water trick?

Thanks guys.
 
jagg

jagg

Well-Known Member
That las vid was cool, showing both dirt climbs and water skipping. I only hope that the helmet that came out of the one Jeep was a spare, and not the drivers.
 
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Nutz4rc

Well-Known Member
Mod clod?

I aint gonna lie. To be able to confabberrate a Clod or TXT to actually be able to do this would be pretty cool. I to would like to see some video of this with a truck that size skimming. Once a setup to be able to do is achieved you would need to prove the water is at least 6 inches deep or more. Clod VS TXT. Hmm each has an advantage. The TXT may be able to be made lighter as it can be setup with one motor easily to power the whole truck. I pulled a Leher brushless out of a TXT I just sold a lil bit ago and with six cells it was a rocket. With an 11.1 lipo I could believe it would have danced on the water.
(Maybe I can get the guy to send the Truck back to me for "tests....." LOL)
Somebody get JustAdork a camera operator!!!! If I was close I would gladly film it. Sombodys gotta be willing to do it! Bill
 
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Nutz4rc

Well-Known Member
Nice start Will. Is it gonna be for looks only or will you "attempt" the water skip? I am looking for some parts to assemble a unit myself as with the mess I have I only have about half the parts of any particular Idea I have had to this point. I am thinking for a body on mine I am gonna get me an plastic boat that fits it good. Thats way if it DOES flip over due to an OOPS it may float.... :willy


I am debating between brushless and brushed power. I am looking to LRP for a waterproof speed control and they even offer waterproof brushless speed controls now. Now how waterproof are the brushless motors??? If the guts were sealed (windings) and the outside leads had silicone on them then even if it did go under you should be able to drain it with the worst possible casualty being the bearings and those should be fine if you tended them right away.

We need to get a few people who like this idea on it and get three or four different rides and vids up. Bill
 
S_C_I_P_I_O79

S_C_I_P_I_O79

Well-Known Member
Oh that is a nice start... water or not, it will have the hill climb part down.

I'm actually thinking about trying brushed first, just to get a feel of things and play it safe. Looking at setting up a micro switch (like the drag racers do) or that mechanical speed control idea would be easy and cheap too. Didn't drag racers use some type of sub-c batteries to save weight and room?

Even thinking of using a body shell as a mold and filling it with insta-foam. Then intergrate the chassis into that foam "body" to provide some buoyancy if things go wrong.

Seeing that pic of the floating Clod makes me WISH there were some Clod size paddle tires. Wonder if I can somehow make my own... What tires of this size would be best to simulate paddles?

Also wonder how much flotation Maxx size tires would give...
 
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Nutz4rc

Well-Known Member
Doin-it-up

The only issue with a direct on off switch on a land based vehicle is that it will be hard as heck to aim it anywhere (Full power instantly = donuts! Normally). Boats get away with it due to slippage from the prop. As I mentioned above LRP makes speed controls that they warrenty EVEN running underwater. Even brushless ones. But 8.4 volts is the most I have found they can handle looking online. I plan to call them tommorrow to see if I can get a 11.1 for a brushed motor. (If I remember correctly the brushless controllers can handle the 11.1 volts and run brushed or brushless motors.)

I thought that (In fact I am like 98% sure) that most of the cells we use in RC are Sub c cells. Hard to go smaller than that and carry current needed for a hot-rod rc unless you wish to go Lipo. Lipos underwater will destroy them. Fine Design will make waterproof ones for you. With a LRP water proof speed control and a Sealed Lipo the servo sealed up in a ballon would be all thats needed to make a car you could drive around the bottom of a pool. Does anyone know if they make a totally waterproof servo??? I know there are resistant ones.

40 series Proline paddles are the closest to A Clod size tire with paddles but they are small paddles on those tires. (Size enough?) The regular "Maxx" proline paddles have much bigger paddles and more numbered (More paddles per tire) But the tires are a little smaller than the 40 series. (There is also the paddle tires for the HPI Baja. Fitting them would not be to hard.) But they are a lil heavy (not bad with the HPI rim. But they are supposed to hold up to a 20 pound car.) They are tall and you might have to gear down a lil for thier tallness)

I wonder about floatation vs skipp-a-bility. One would think a wide tire would be better for going across the surface. Once sunk in to the "Its floating part of it" its prolley there. To be able to get a RC truck to sit floating (like a Clod does stock) and to be able to power it up and make it rise out of the water and start hydroplanning. I would love to be able to make that happen and would duplicate a vehicle that could do that to the core. But I am a tad skeptical of this.

You would most likely have to stay on top of the water. SO what do you mean by floatability? Are you talking like an inner tube floatability or simply the floatation that you would get from a wide tire at high speed pushing against the water under it?

Foam would be good (especially if you are brave and try DEEP water LOL) Even strips of foam attached to each other would work in under the body.

I am looking at a couple Losi xxx4s on fleabay and theres even a Tamiya Blazing star on there sorta cheap. The losi is real light but hooking paddles to it might would be a tad harder than the Blazing star. But it SHOULD make a better "skipper" due to less wieght and a freeer spinning drivetrain? I still am looking for a good deal on a MRC sb academy buggy as I think it would be a good stat platform. Course all this other talk is making me wanna try a TXT..... :] Bill
 
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Nutz4rc

Well-Known Member
What what what?? (Kyles mom) You know the [email protected]&

That skipping was ok but lacking. The car seemed underpowered. I like and dislike the idea of trying it like they did on ice. But I have water near me thats got a smooth transition from the sand to the water so its paddles and a LOT more power than that car looked like it had. I know it was on ice but they could have laid down something infront of the hole that the car could have accelerated on. Heck they could have poured a lil sand "runway" there and still used paddles. I never thought of trying it with a 2 wheel drive truck. I would almost think you need the fronts pulling/lifting unless the car with 2 wheel drive was going realllllly fast. I have seen full size water skipping doen right from the bank with no runway so I do not know why a RC should not be able to do the same.

Hey Justadork what kind of tires did you cut and narrow on the TXT you were wading with? Got a pic or two of what you did to the tires? Thanx Bill
 
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Nutz4rc

Well-Known Member
Its a start.....

I used to have a nice Tamiya Blazing star with a 10 turn motor in it and the thing flew. It would bark all four tires on asphalt taking off. IT only had a three speed stock mechanical control but scince they are sorta waterproof I am thinking that again if I do not find a waterproof electronic speed control.
Worse comes to worse it will crack the hot resistor when the cool water hits it. No biggie.

I just snagged a good used Blazing Star off Fleabay. Once it gets here I will look into paddles for it at all four corners and putting the servo (or servos) in a balloon. I got a motor here that should provide all the ponies it needs and a battery should be no problem. For a front bumper I am gonna look into the front of a plastic boat to provide "lift" if it needs it but if it goes as hoped the tires are ALL that should be "IN" (on I hope!) the water. Now I gotta figure out how to film it and then put it online. I have an older Digital camera that will take fifteen second "movies" but I dunno how they will look online. Guess I will find out. I do not think I will need more than fifteen seconds. If I can get this to say on top of the water for longer than that it will definatly be a success.

I am thinking 2.2 paddles. I could put clod tires on it then it would be amphibious..... Dunno if it would go fast enough to skip then..... But it would really float due to much lighter than a clod..... If I pop a jeep body on it it will look a good bit like the jeep in the first video of this post. Hopefulley it will do as well on da wata! Bill
 
S_C_I_P_I_O79

S_C_I_P_I_O79

Well-Known Member
Yeah I think trying the mechanical speed controller has its benefits and keeps it basic. Good luck with that Blazing Star- looks like you have a plan. I'm still up in the air on how to finally approch this. Guess I'll start checking ebay too.

Here is yet another vid, kind of quick and hard to make out any detail of this 'puddle skip' but I found it somewhat interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5c4UdRiRKw
 
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tejotasbd

Active Member
id love to see some skipping ! unfortunately i dont have anything new to chime in with, seeing as im afraid to let my rc mingle with water, lol, but paddles, light weight and high power seem the way to go. on a related note
anyone have pics or a diagram of a beefy msc?
 
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Nutz4rc

Well-Known Member
Still waiting

I have a stock clod three speed here that I plan on using. Its about as tough as a MSC comes. I am gonna insulate the resistor a bit so cold water does not crack it. I do not have a diagram of it handy buit somewhere on this board was a PDF files for a CLOD and it will show it if you are not familier wth it.

I got the paddles here now and I think I have the rims I need to mount them to the cars axles I am still awaiting for the buggy to arrive. I think the guy I bought it from strapped it to a turtles back and pointed it this way. On the bright side thats a way that a car may traverse the waters surface if we can train the turtle to stay near the top of the water........ Bill
 
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