Dagger - Twin Detonator Faq

Discussion in 'Tamiya RC Monster Truck Forum' started by Spoon37, May 30, 2006.

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  1. May 30, 2006 #1




    Well-Known Member

    May 22, 2006
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    This forum is For the Tamiya Wild Dagger #58231, Twin detonator #58309 and the new Double blaze #58366. herein abbreviated to 'dagger' to keep things simple

    Double Blaze

    Twin Detonator

    Wild Dagger

    So what is a Wild dagger?

    its a Twin motor 4wd small MT, using two of the Wild willy 2 style gearboxes and TL01b suspension(as used on the Baja Champ/King), with a ladder frame plastic chassis. It uses 2.2" truck wheels with Tamiya's Monster spike tyres(5" tall) and a pick up truck bodyshell - the bodyshell varies between models but the mechanical details do not.

    here is Tamiyas own description/specs of the Twin det:

    What does it come with out of the box? what does it need to run?

    you get a kit containing the truck, a mechanical 3 step controller and both motors included. it does not include any Radio gear(transmitter, receiver, servo's or Frequency setting crystals), or batteries/charger. it requires a 2 channel Radio system, two servo's a 7.2v battery pack(6 cell sub C size stick pack), and an appropriate charger. most LHS' should be able to provide these as a form of deal when you buy the kit and All online shops offer similar deals.

    What should be the first upgrades?

    Ball bearings:

    the kit like so many other Tamiyas comes with plain bearings and bushing which need to be greased and introduce a great deal of friction in the driveline, therefore your first upgrade should be Ballrace bearings(sometimes called ball bearings, but strictly they are "single race ball bearings"). steel type ball bearing sets are cheap but dont do much to keep out dirt, rubber sealed ball bearings are much better.

    the truck requires 24 5x11x4mm Ball bearings. this is a standard Tamiya size so should be cheap.


    second upgrade should deal with the horribly inefficient mechanical 3 step speed controller (MSC). this uses a servo to move an electrode over contact points to determine the speed by spiltting power between the motors and a ceramic resistor. this wastes power in the form of heat in the resistor, not to mention powering a whole servo too, and they whole system gives very sluggish and unpredictable results.

    to Upgrade you need to buy an Electronic Speed controller(ESC) which replaces the MSC, resistor and servo. to select an appropriate ESC you need to know something about motor limits, and paralell wiring.

    first paralell wiring just means a having pair of Y leads giving equal power to each motor giving maximum power. this means the current drain is equivalent to using a single motor of half the number of turns.

    motor limits on ESC's are determined by # of turns on the armature. lower means faster motors which means more current drain. so a 10t limit ESC can handle more than a 15t limit ESC and a "No limit" ESC is best of all.

    to handle twin standard motors its 27t per motor, and wired in paralell thats like a single motor of 13.5 turns(27/2=13.5), but as motor limits go in whole numbers you need a 13t or lower limit ESC. I would recommend a 12t limit or lower to be on the safe side. ESC's such as the Novak Reactor, Mtroniks Viper Rv11, or an LRP f1 super reverse would suffice...

    for modified or hotter motors than standard, you really need a good no-imit ESC such as the Novak Super Duty XR, or an Mtroniks super Truck ESC.

    Oil shocks:

    third upgrade should be oil filled shocks. the stock friction shocks arent smooth at all and make the handling unpredictable, oil shocks are better and smoother tho be warned you ahve to buy shocks and oil seperatley and oil shocks take a little patience to build.

    I would recommend not buying the recommended Tamiya hop-up of "low friction dampers" which are very short and dont give enough damping for an off road truck, instead use a good 4" shock and either fabricate an extension shock tower or buy one from Xtreme or R2C2. The design of something like the Xtreme is not hard to fabricate out of 3mm alu sheet with simple tools.

    you can find plenty of 4" shock examples as they are used on many monster trucks, and the rear of smaller trucks and buggies too. a good set to buy in terms of performance and value would be the AE maxx paxx shock set of 8 blue anodized alu shock absorbers:


    also T-maxx/E-maxx stock shocks are cheap and readily available on Ebay and are ideal for such conversions. Also looks for upgrade shocks for the same trucks as they are the right size, and usually good value.

    the rest is up to you. if anyone else has pics/info that would be helpful please reply with the info below, but please keep discussion limited to the main Dagger forum not this FAQ.


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